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Last Post 09/11/2008 6:01 PM by  Shane Jones
GSC unwillingness to answer questions
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bgodwin
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07/23/2007 8:36 AM
    POLLING THE AUDIENCE:

    I'm perplexed that when we pose a 'question' to GSC they tell us that they are ONLY there to troubleshoot possible system issues and NOT to answer training questions.

    We paid heavily for Lawson training, which was subpar to say the least. They seem to want us to go to the Knowledge Base, documentation and various forums in hopes of getting answers. Sometimes we can find our answers in the KB or the documentation, but sometimes we put forth diligent efforts and remain uncertain.

    Do other software companies push off their clients to the graciousness of the forum members? Is this normal? Should we be outraged?

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    Shane Jones
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    08/01/2007 1:40 PM
    No one is replying to this....

    I am not sure that the training is poor - I just think that sometimes the Lawson system has too many layers and too many screens to set stuff up. I can't just setup a job to import/export a file on my own I have to get too many people involved because there is something in every layer of the system... Setting up benefits happens on MANY different screens... I have to research things each time something comes up so that I can figure out what form numbers I have to go to ... I once did a count of all of the form numbers for HR and it was somewhere in the thousands... Sometimes the same thing must be setup on more than one form number.

    Now I have seen much worse but I really think Lawson needs to stop and look at their user interfaces and setup systems.

    Just my two cents...

    Shane
    Shane Jones
    Tools: HR, Payroll, Benefits, PFI, Smart Office, BSI, Portal and Self-Service
    Systems: Lawson, Open Hire, Kronos, Crystal Reporting, SumTotal Learning
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    k-rock
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    08/02/2007 9:25 AM
    The GSC is a SUPPORT center, not a training center. User Guides, documentation, consultants, and Lawson Professional Services are there to train customers.
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    John Henley
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    08/02/2007 10:04 AM
    This is certainly a tough topic. When you say you "paid heavily for Lawson training, which was subpar to say the least" you should take that up specifically with your Client Account Manager, and 1) demand a refund as well as 2) ask them to reschedule a replacement class with a different trainer. You really do need to address this with your CAM, so that they can make sure it gets addressed internally within Lawson's organization, and the specific training resource is identified and his/her deficiancies rectified.

    GSC is part of Lawson's new "Support & Delivery" operation, which is responsible for getting you the software and keeping it running. Specifically, GSC's "mission" is to troubleshoot and create "problem tickets" (PTs) for software issues/bugs, to be repaired by R&D, and issued via CTPs or ESPs/MSPs. GSC is not a training center, although sometimes they do give advice (depending on which support consultant you talk to--some are more helpful than others...).

    A key point is that Lawson -- as a company -- often doesn't present a united front. This is a goal they appear to be working towards, but they're not even close yet. I've had several recent cases involving data corruption, etc. where GSC pointed at R&D and vice versa, and Lawson--as a company--failed to deliver a united resolution.

    Lawson's software (despite their "Simpler is Better slogan!) is indeed very complicated--both on the technology side as well as the applications themselves. This isn't QuickBooks. Most clients end up using a third-party consultant (partner or otherwise) to help them define their business processes (i.e. Shane's example of benefits setup) and the related Lawson forms/actions required. I agree that Lawson needs to streamline their software to be easier to use. Remember that they're constrained by the LID 24x80 screens--one of the key reasons Landmark is so key to their future....
    Thanks for using the LawsonGuru.com forums!
    John
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    linda phillips
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    08/02/2007 10:08 AM
    I would have to say Lawson will not snswer anything that has a likely hood of being a training question. Sometimes you need an answer to something and the knowledge area does not give you enough information to base your findings on. I agree for the amount of money you pay for support someone could bend a little. It is not like asking them to train you on the phone or lis ticket but give you some guidence to help resolve your issue. Even if they could point you in the correct direction on the knowledge base or PDF it would be helpful
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    John Henley
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    08/02/2007 10:31 AM
    I've moved this topic to a more general forum area in order to open it up to more input...
    Thanks for using the LawsonGuru.com forums!
    John
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    Ben Coonfield
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    08/02/2007 2:05 PM
    I have had success in getting questions answered by GSC, provided that they are specific enough, and provided that the person responding knows the answer. However the GSC staff can’t really compensate for deficiencies in training.

    Sometimes I encounter a significant area that is just not documented – in that case I think GSC needs to respond to reasonable questions since this is a product defect – a documentation defect.

    I am also concerned about the stance that GSC does not address installation issues. It seems to me that installability is the most basic feature of any software product, and installation problems should be addressed like any other problem.

    I am usually happy with GSC response to my contacts – Occasionally I run into a problem they can’t help with, either because (1) the contact just doesn't know so doesn’t have much useful to say, or (2) there isn’t a solution but to live with the “feature” (which isn’t really GSC’s fault).
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    bgodwin
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    08/20/2007 10:11 AM
    I used to work for a software company as level 1 support and we answered training questions also, whatever we could do for the client, we did.

    Is Lawson's position standard for most software companies? If we do have a training type question, are we supposed to contact the person that trained us to begin with? All of the trainers did give us their email addresses, but I really did not think that we were supposed to utilize them, but maybe we are. I feel somewhat left out in the cold and reliant upon the generosity and graciousness of these forum saints for assistance.

    I did complete honest questionnaires for our training instructors, one of which really knew her stuff, but lacked good teaching skills. We never pursued any refund or anything, assumed that this was just par for the course. We had a bunch of 4 day courses back to back and in some ways, may have bitten off more than we could chew in attempting to grasp all of this so quickly. We were told that the training was supposed to give us a GENERAL idea of the system. In that regard the training was sufficient. We were told that we would be receiving more focused training during the 'end user training' process. This phase/process never occurred for us - maybe because we were struggling with the go live deadline.
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    Shane Jones
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    09/11/2008 6:01 PM
    I just had a support call where I was trying to determine all of the necessary settings for a Vacation Buy program. Lawson Support sent me to a document that was something like 3 paragraphs and pretty much just said use BN15 to setup a Vacation Buy program. Seriously - there really was not much more.

    I asked for a basic instruction document for setting up the Buy program and was told that they do not have this because every company is different. I had some discussions with the Support and my Rep about how Lawson seems to think that if they make their setup instructions available it will pull money from their pocket. I explained that if they make the system easier to use with better setup documentation it will be easier to show an ROI - I think many companies just don't implement some part because they do not have the financial resources. I have a bunch of things I have not setup yet because there are no easy instruction documents to follow and I just do not have the time to research the setup and then test.

    My argument is that Lawson created the system to work a certain way and they should provide the basic setup instructions - then I can tweak as I need to from there. I just don't think that they understand because they want to refer me to professional services but really if they want Long-Term loyalty it would be better to make it so that we are all using so much of the system that we would never want to switch vendors.

    Just my two cents ....
    Shane Jones
    Tools: HR, Payroll, Benefits, PFI, Smart Office, BSI, Portal and Self-Service
    Systems: Lawson, Open Hire, Kronos, Crystal Reporting, SumTotal Learning
    ** Teach others to fish...
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