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Last Post 05/10/2018 4:45 PM by  Ronnie
HR511 conversions from App tracking system
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Margie Gyurisin
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01/12/2017 9:27 AM

    We are going to import new hires from HealthCare Source's Position Manager to Lawson S3. 

    Any advice regarding setting the parameters on the HR511?  Lessons learned.  I am particularly interested in which way you set your update history parameter and the Mass Load Processing parameter.

     

    Thanks.

    Dave Curtis
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    01/13/2017 1:13 PM
    HR511 items that I have hit in the past.

    Date format: I always make sure my HR511 job is set up to process date as CCYYMMDD so that there are no issues with dates not processing due to dropped zero's etc.
    Update History: We always run with yes so that the new hire information is logged to HR history
    Mass Load: Unless you process more than 50 records at a time this setting can be set to No. It provides some enhancement in speed if you are processing a large file because it will process in groups of 50 and does some pre-work for each groups of 50.
    Headers: If you are processing HR511 that may not have ALL of the fields on a standard HR511, you will want to have your headers. This allows you to only pass through the fields you want to processes. If you do not do headers - you must pass at least a place holder for all HR511 fields.

    Are you getting your HR511 directly from your ATS or are you getting a data feed that you will be turning into HR511?

    Because we process re-hires, transfers, new hires and intra-system transfers through our ATS, we get a data file twice a day and that data file is processed using an IPA program. Each record is evaluated to determine if the person is a new hire, re-hire, transfer etc. and then the data is compared to S3 data and the HR511 is created (for new hires) for transfers, re-hires etc. it will process the PA52 transaction. The process also populates a number of user fields based on the hire information etc. and we do this with the HR515.
    Deelight
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    05/01/2018 8:06 AM

    Hi Dave, Would you be willing to share your process for new hires?  We are particularly interested in the error correction process.  Healthcare Source's Position Manager has a feed that provides us w/new hire data in the format needed for the HR511.  We have no way to require several of our HR11 required fields (location, shift, supervisor, etc) in Position Manager so if they are many times not entered properly using the Lawson defined codes & the HR511 will error out.  In Position Manager these are custom fields that are free-form and cannot be required.   We are trying to figure out the best way for our HR staff to 1) identify where in the EMPLOADCSV file the field is that needs to be fixed (there are 245 fields to look through), 2) the best tool for fixing the fields (Excel?), and 3) making sure the file is named appropriately for the HR511 job to load the corrected file.  We also want to keep an archive of the files so we know what took place.  We need to make sure our new hires go through as timely as possible since our Active Directory user account is created once the record is successfully added to the HR11.   

    Unfortunately we do not have IPA to help us so we will have to put some other tools in place.

    Any input you can offer is appreciated!

    Deanna

    Jason Beard
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    05/01/2018 12:20 PM

    Deanna - 

    I am not aware of any delivered pre-processing routine.  You can run the 511 in report mode to identify errors and clean them up.  That said... you have to be careful using Excel to edit the file as you can lose some of your required formatting, ie leading zeroes etc.  That said.  Do you have the ability to re-export from your source system?  You know where these fields come from in the source so if you can identify the errors, correct them and then re-export you don't need to worry about the layout of the file or how to edit the file directly.  

    Depending on how crazy you want to get you can certainly build a custom program that would allow you to edit the file directly and validate the lawson fields before saving it back.  

    Just a couple ideas.

     

    thanks

    Jason

    Jason Beard
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    Dave Curtis
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    05/02/2018 8:33 AM
    Deanna - All of our processing occurs within IPA (Formerly Process Flow). The IPA literally evaluates every field before it puts it into an HR511 file. This includes data validation and removing troublesome characters and hidden special characters. The process also evaluates the data needed to complete the HR511 load by using AGS calls, SQL queries and a fair amount of javascript to clean and prepare the data for loading. All of this is done with no manual intervention (unless we hit some odd/new error - then we interact with it).

    Honestly - prior to building the IPA program we did manual entry of new hires using the applicant fields and PA52 to "hire an applicant".

    As far as how to manage/correct data in the HR511 - I am with Jason - using Excel is risky because of the way it automatically formats fields and can easily result in lost formatting that is needed to successfully load HR511. Any time I work with manually editing a conversion file already built - I use a good text editor like Notepad++

    Since you do not have IPA or Process Flow available - you could consider scrubbing the file using an Access Database - if I did not have the tools I have - that is what I would do. I would link an Access Database to Lawson tables, drop the HR511 into a linked table in Access and then create queries to compare, evaluate and clean up the data and then have it create a new HR511 to be loaded, this would reduce your manual intervention - years ago that is how I manages similar processing.

    Not sure how big your volume is - but it might be worth pushing for some automation... even if it is "semi-automation" using Access - I would expect it should provide a significant benefit... we process, on average, 670 new hires and transfers every month - out of those we end up manually interacting with 1 or 2 at most and those are usually odd things like when someone enters 3,25 years of service (instead of 3.25) or they give the person $60,550 as an hourly rate (entering annual instead of hourly rate) - those are rejected from the automated process and sent to the recruiter to correct in the ATS.

    Happy to share anything that might help... feel free to contact me directly if you want
    curtisdave@outlook.com
    Ronnie
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    05/07/2018 1:15 PM
    Subscribing to this. We are in the process of starting a project to import iCIMS data into lawson using the HR511. We currently do not use IPA here.
    Jason Beard
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    05/07/2018 2:08 PM

    Ronnie - 

    For a prior client I've written a process that read a CSV file delivered by iCIMS and performed data validation/edits and ultimately created the HR511 load format, processed the HR511 and then back-fed the resulting employee number to iCIMS.  

    Please let me know if you are interested in doing something similar.

     

     

    Jason Beard
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    Ronnie
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    05/08/2018 7:46 AM
    Posted By Jason Beard on 05/07/2018 2:08 PM

    Ronnie - 

    For a prior client I've written a process that read a CSV file delivered by iCIMS and performed data validation/edits and ultimately created the HR511 load format, processed the HR511 and then back-fed the resulting employee number to iCIMS.  

    Please let me know if you are interested in doing something similar.

     



    Appreciate it. I am def going to have to do something kind of similar, because some applicants may be Rehires, so their SSN and info would already exist in Lawson. I am pretty sure that lawson will let you create a new (with auto emp number) a new record with an existing SSN. I will have to somehow take the data and validate it against what we already have in the DB to see if that person with the SSN already exists, and if they do it will just be a change / update instead of ADD.

     

    I am pretty new to the iCIMS and the whole HR511 process. I just trying to kind of determine how I can check this data file first before upload. I am assuming maybe some sort of SQL SSIS / Stored procedure.

    Jason Beard
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    05/08/2018 7:51 AM

    Correct we used DOB and SSN as an indicator to pass a change instead of an Add.  Thought process being they could fat finger one or the other but not likely both.  In the even that just the SSN matched it was put on an error report for someone to review.

    Jason Beard
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    Ronnie
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    05/08/2018 3:36 PM

    what kind of program are you doing for this querying of the data?

     

    Another question, HR11 has an effective date field at the upper right hand corner that is filled out when a new employee is added or a change to data is made. I do not see the effective date on the HR511 conversion file layout. What do people usually do about that? Our HR usually enters the new hires using an effective date of whatever the start date "hire date" may be.

    Jason Beard
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    05/08/2018 4:03 PM

    It is a COBOL program.  On our feed from iCIMS there was a START-DATE field.  This was used for the hire date and or effective date in the event of a change/re-hire.

    Jason Beard
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    John Henley
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    05/09/2018 10:16 AM
    Posted By Ronnie on 05/08/2018 3:36 PM

    Another question, HR11 has an effective date field at the upper right hand corner that is filled out when a new employee is added or a change to data is made. I do not see the effective date on the HR511 conversion file layout. What do people usually do about that? Our HR usually enters the new hires using an effective date of whatever the start date "hire date" may be.



    @Ronnie: Fill PEP-EFFECT-DATE

    Thanks for using the LawsonGuru.com forums!
    John
    Ronnie
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    05/09/2018 3:11 PM
    Posted By John Henley on 05/09/2018 10:16 AM
    Posted By Ronnie on 05/08/2018 3:36 PM

    Another question, HR11 has an effective date field at the upper right hand corner that is filled out when a new employee is added or a change to data is made. I do not see the effective date on the HR511 conversion file layout. What do people usually do about that? Our HR usually enters the new hires using an effective date of whatever the start date "hire date" may be.



    @Ronnie: Fill PEP-EFFECT-DATE

    Thanks John,

     

    I saw that one, but did not know if that was the same as the Effective date that is on the HR11 screen in the top right hand corner. as it only shows "EFFECT-DATE" when doing a CTRL SHIFT O


    Dave Curtis
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    05/09/2018 3:34 PM

    Caution about using the hire date as the effective date (which in theory will be a future date) if you use the hire date and then need to term the record before they start (say they do not pass screening etc.) then you cannot do the term immediate because it will not allow you to put a term effective prior to the effective date of their first record (which is a future date).

    Typically current date is what I would use.  Of course if you just delete employee records that do not start - then I suppose it is not an issue.

    As you start your automation planning - if you have access to process flow or IPA I would suggest looking at that as your tool.  With process flow or IPA you can do the entire process from doing the FTP of the file, reading the file using SQL or AGS calls to bounce the data up against the current employee records to find transfers and re-hires and javascript to clean up the data fields if needed (formatting phone numbers, email, address etc.)

    The process I have in place pulls the file from the ATS system server, reads the file to determines if the record is a new hire, re-hire, system transfer, department transfer, just an FTE change etc. It makes the determination by using SQL queries to compare the data on the ATS file to the current employee base.  It then builds the HR511 for new hires, creates HR515 to update a bunch of user fields, processes PA52 actions for transfers and re-hires, updates/creates PA26 records for reviews. It also sends out email to the recruiters if there are issues like the person has no SSN or they have a date of birth that makes them 200 years old or 12 years old etc.  Once it is done it sends a summary email of what has been done for the file and stores the HR511, HR515 and source file off for reference.

    There are a number of tools that can do the job - but with process flow or IPA you can manage the entire process in one tool and there is a huge amount of flexibility with SQL, AGS calls, Transactions and the use of JavaScript. 

    Ronnie
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    05/09/2018 3:44 PM
    Posted By Dave Curtis on 05/09/2018 3:34 PM

    Caution about using the hire date as the effective date (which in theory will be a future date) if you use the hire date and then need to term the record before they start (say they do not pass screening etc.) then you cannot do the term immediate because it will not allow you to put a term effective prior to the effective date of their first record (which is a future date).

    Typically current date is what I would use.  Of course if you just delete employee records that do not start - then I suppose it is not an issue.

    As you start your automation planning - if you have access to process flow or IPA I would suggest looking at that as your tool.  With process flow or IPA you can do the entire process from doing the FTP of the file, reading the file using SQL or AGS calls to bounce the data up against the current employee records to find transfers and re-hires and javascript to clean up the data fields if needed (formatting phone numbers, email, address etc.)

    The process I have in place pulls the file from the ATS system server, reads the file to determines if the record is a new hire, re-hire, system transfer, department transfer, just an FTE change etc. It makes the determination by using SQL queries to compare the data on the ATS file to the current employee base.  It then builds the HR511 for new hires, creates HR515 to update a bunch of user fields, processes PA52 actions for transfers and re-hires, updates/creates PA26 records for reviews. It also sends out email to the recruiters if there are issues like the person has no SSN or they have a date of birth that makes them 200 years old or 12 years old etc.  Once it is done it sends a summary email of what has been done for the file and stores the HR511, HR515 and source file off for reference.

    There are a number of tools that can do the job - but with process flow or IPA you can manage the entire process in one tool and there is a huge amount of flexibility with SQL, AGS calls, Transactions and the use of JavaScript. 



    I wish we had IPA here, the company I work for now did not purchase or see any benefit to it. The 2 previous jobs I had did use IPA.

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    05/09/2018 4:50 PM
    I understand what Dave is saying but if you use current date as the PEP effect date, then your history records that Lawson creates are probably incorrect. Dril on your records to see.  Look at your PA13 records (position history)  If you pay via step and grade schedule, your salary history record could have pulled from the incorrect effective dated schedule. We term our new hires and then run PA100 to update.
    Dave Curtis
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    05/10/2018 10:32 AM
    Agreed - good point to consider.
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    05/10/2018 4:45 PM
    our HR is saying that the effective date should be their Hire Date / Start Date.

    Im kind of confused on if we go this route if I should leave the Update History parameter on HR511 set to N.
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